Pretty easy to explain. Israelis, just like other people read HN too. They don't like such articles, so they flag them. If an article receives several flags, it's marked as flagged.
Also, HN is tech site, not political site, so I'm not surprised by this, such articles may be considered off-topic.
It's because of an agenda which goes beyond the politics the present conflict. For example, just in the last 24 hours, there were at least two submissions here about Jewish/Israeli sexual violence. Both were old articles (so not news) about crimes that occur in every population. We don't see this sort of interest in digging up dirt on other small minority groups.
(Not that any particular submitter is to blame; the issue is systematic.)
I used to think that it’s beneficial to separate tech from politics but I’m convinced now that it’s a delusional stance. Politics is in tech whether we like it or not, CEOs have their political agenda and ideologies and often talk about them openly, their products directly impact people’s lives, some change the entire society. In the case of the Gaza genocide, Lavender and Gospel systems are the direct enabelers of such scale of devastation. I think it’s far from being off-topic.
In a nutshell, no politics is itself a political opinion (that happens to favor the dominant party).
Let's assume that I have an idea on my mind that could potentially change the power generation and usage landscape and society (think 80% efficient solar power AND 80% reduction in power usage in data centers AND increase power output from most existing power plants by 30% AND solve power storage problem), but I wonder how should I approach distributing it. Should I somehow prevent Chinese, Israelis and USA from having this and using it to enhance oppression of other nations? How would you approach such political problem as a CEO?
Here I thought the genocide of the Palestinian people was a violent and malignant land grab and ethnic cleansing with the added touch of being religiously righteous in the eyes of the oppressors, but you've opened my eyes that these efforts are in fact meant to achieve "80% efficient solar power AND 80% reduction in power usage in data centers AND increase power output from most existing power plants by 30% AND solve power storage problem".
Thank you for your enlightening perspective.
I mean, I am still wondering how any of those metrics justify killing and starving and entire population, but I guess, "line go up!"
I agree with flagging most political topics, and most such horrible happenings in the world as TFA. This place is supposed to foster curious, intellectual discussion, and the umpteenth report of what amounts to be the same horrible thing doesn't do that, at all. There is a disgusting glut of horribleness constantly happening in the world, and we don't need to discuss the particulars of most of it.
Something I think that has a chance to spark constructive discussion is when there are significant changes in such a thing, be that change positive or negative. And those discussions usually stay on the HN pages too, because while I'm sure many are flagging them, many are voting for them as well. As the HN guidelines put it: "Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
I politely disagree with almost every combination of the words you just used :).
1. hackers could be interested in news other than tech, that’s the very identity of hacking: understanding things in this case, the world politics and conflicts.
2. even then, there are _always_ non-tech entries on HackerNews, de facto.
3. it’s not 4000 old issue (misleading oversimplification). In essence, it’s a century-old colonial project that is entirely inline with the 19th and 20th century European colonialism, with a supremacist idealogy at its core (ethnostate).
Maybe you really should start understanding things in this case instead of repeating propaganda bullshit?
The Arab-Israeli conflict started with the Arab invasion of the region roughly 1300 years ago. Before that, Arabs didn't exist in the Levante. And their colonisation and expansion originally targeted the entire (known) world, including Europe, until they were driven out. So, the Arab settlements in the modern-day Israel are just remainders of the Arab imperialism. And it's long overdue to remove this last piece of colonialism from the world.
Thanks for the lies, Mr Hasbara. You made a mistake though, the US would still exist as the last piece of colonialism. Now that you know that, I assume you will fully support the removal of all non indigenous people from North America.
> In essence, it’s a century-old colonial project that is entirely inline with the 19th and 20th century European colonialism, with a supremacist idealogy at its core (ethnostate).
I don't think that's a proper characterization. Migration way strongly regulated back then. Only after WWII when the crimes of the Nazis became public, mass migration to the southern Levante were allowed. It's therefore not a colonial project, but driven by what happened at that time (Holocaust).
Arabic/Muslim and other citizen are well integrated into society as far as I am aware so I am not convinced supremacist/ethnostate is a fitting description either.
No it's not, it's never been about hackers except in name. It's about startups and venture capital. Always has been. Doesn't invalidate the point you are trying to make, though.
Theory: Most HNer's are quite aware of the crummy situation, do not like depressing "Day nnn of Horrible Things Happening in Sudan" updates, and know that discussing Israeli/Palestinian issues on HN has a 0.000% chance of improving anything.
{total # of HN readers} * {% who are American voters} * {% who bother reading submissions/comments on this topic} * {% who meaningfully change their opinion on the subject as a result of such reading} * {% who change to strongly opposing US support for Israel (because politicians don't much care about druthers)} * {% who "stick" in that new position, long-term} * ...
Multiply it out. Then compare to the number of US voters who'd need to switch to strongly opposing support for Israel, for the politicians to notice or care.
Perhaps what's new is that a mainstream organisation is posting articles where their reporters have witnessed such attacks.
I've seen stuff on youtube, I've seen internet articles, I've seen thinly veiled references but this is a respectable organisation reporting what they have seen, on the front page.
I don't know how it is in the UK or other countries, but mainstream information sources in France have been reporting on this for decades, I think mostly everyone is aware. Granted, the opinion in France has always been quite sympathetic to the Palestinian cause (see Chirac with "do you want me to go back to my plane?" in the 90s) although the media and politics have apparently shifted towards more support of Israel in the last few years.
The ethnic cleansing that is happening in Palestine and what these settlers are doing essentially ensures there can never be peace. The settlers are to me the root cause of the ongoing conflict, it ensure the wound can never heal while land is constantly being stolen. Whatever ceasefire or truce does happen the settlers keep taking more land backed by the Israeli government. Absolutely disgusting.
The settlers aren't doing this without support, if the Israeli state didn't want it to be happening it wouldn't. There's tacit support from Israel for the settlements, they have political power.
I'm stating it this way to not push the responsibility only to the individual settlers, it's a concerted operation with broad support from a cohort of Israel's society.
I’m absolutely baffled by Germans at this point. I’ve been taking to many Germans in the beginning of the genocide and the major feedback I got was « given what we did to the Jews… we can’t criticize Israel ». Now almost two years after, countless of massive crimes and violated international laws later, I really can’t fathom how people are not outside shouting to their government to stop supporting this evil state (which has nothing to do with Judaism as many courageous Jews are currently pointing out). This is deep corruption at the state level and, likely, deep racism at the population level. Dehumanizing the Palestinians is the main explanation for the silent majority in Germany, and not without irony: yesterday they dehumanized the Jews, and instead of learning a general lesson, they keep dehumanizing other semites in the name of their past crimes.
If you run outside your apartment in Germany and shout to the German government you will be arrested and you will not be treated kindly. They come down very very harshly on critics of Israel. Entire institutions have been destroyed (as in removal of 100% of funding, bank account closed, raided by police, electricity disconnected (during the police raid), building forcibly sold to real estate developers, etc) for stuff as simple as hosting one single one-hour speech by a native Palestinian. You can look up what happened to the Oyoun cultural center, or the Berlin Palestine Conference in 2024.
The police justification? "There is a risk that a speaker will repeatedly be shown via video who in the past made antisemitic remarks and glorified violence. For this reason, the gathering was ended and banned on Saturday and Sunday as well." - nothing that actually happened, but rather for a suspicion that words might be said later, the entire conference was immediately terminated, banned, and violently evicted. There is not much video of the eviction since filming private gatherings is generally illegal in Germany. https://mondoweiss.net/2024/04/police-raid-berlin-conference...
No sane resident of Germany would risk it. You comply with the government or else, no different than Russia or China.
This is complete and utter bullshit. Basically every single word is a lie.
Every day, there are rallies in Germany by the so-called "pro-Palestinian" groups. Every single one is allowed by the local administration. They are even protected by the police. The only reason for intervention by the state force is an illegal action - e.g. violence against other people, insults, calls for the capital crimes, racism or the like.
There are very high legal thresholds for disbanding or forbidding of organisations in Germany, so the reasons need to be incredibly severe, like preparation or calls to violence against other people (primarily German citizens), instigation of racial hatred, propaganda against the German state or the democratic principles, etc.
Not a single person was ever detained in Germany for being a Palestinian.
Punishment for torrenting movies was basically enforced by the copyright holders, usually leading to fines in the dimension of 100-200 euros, something that even jobless people can afford.
And the public hotspots were absolutely not illegal, there was just a lot of uncertainty about the legal implications of the crimes that may be committed by the people using the free access points. This is why Germany had no free wifi for so long - it was not forbidden, it was just not regulated and providers were afraid of being sued.
Be careful. This comment ("pure evil") is illegal in Germany, under the antisemitism law. Many people got arrested for less. Police show up at apartments unannounced and take all electronic devices. You do not mess around with German law.
Neither is it illegal to state that a specific attack by settlers is pure evil nor is it impossible to critizise what goes on in Israel in Germany as you allude in your other comments.
Just some casual kids dying of starvation, shelling. Millions of people displaced. Being shunted around. And a genocide live on social media. Funded by the country most represented on this site.
But yeah there are a lot of problems. I think this one is special as it shows we are going backwards, away from the lessons learned and comventions formed from the Napoleonic and World wars. We are going back to all's fair. And that might come for you or me one day.
How come every time the Israeli crimes are featured in HN, the corresponding article is flagged?
Pretty easy to explain. Israelis, just like other people read HN too. They don't like such articles, so they flag them. If an article receives several flags, it's marked as flagged.
Also, HN is tech site, not political site, so I'm not surprised by this, such articles may be considered off-topic.
It's because of an agenda which goes beyond the politics the present conflict. For example, just in the last 24 hours, there were at least two submissions here about Jewish/Israeli sexual violence. Both were old articles (so not news) about crimes that occur in every population. We don't see this sort of interest in digging up dirt on other small minority groups.
(Not that any particular submitter is to blame; the issue is systematic.)
What is that agenda exactly?
And which stories? The one about the Israeli US Attorney letting an Israeli pedophile flee the US?
I used to think that it’s beneficial to separate tech from politics but I’m convinced now that it’s a delusional stance. Politics is in tech whether we like it or not, CEOs have their political agenda and ideologies and often talk about them openly, their products directly impact people’s lives, some change the entire society. In the case of the Gaza genocide, Lavender and Gospel systems are the direct enabelers of such scale of devastation. I think it’s far from being off-topic. In a nutshell, no politics is itself a political opinion (that happens to favor the dominant party).
Let's assume that I have an idea on my mind that could potentially change the power generation and usage landscape and society (think 80% efficient solar power AND 80% reduction in power usage in data centers AND increase power output from most existing power plants by 30% AND solve power storage problem), but I wonder how should I approach distributing it. Should I somehow prevent Chinese, Israelis and USA from having this and using it to enhance oppression of other nations? How would you approach such political problem as a CEO?
Silly me.
Here I thought the genocide of the Palestinian people was a violent and malignant land grab and ethnic cleansing with the added touch of being religiously righteous in the eyes of the oppressors, but you've opened my eyes that these efforts are in fact meant to achieve "80% efficient solar power AND 80% reduction in power usage in data centers AND increase power output from most existing power plants by 30% AND solve power storage problem".
Thank you for your enlightening perspective.
I mean, I am still wondering how any of those metrics justify killing and starving and entire population, but I guess, "line go up!"
I agree with flagging most political topics, and most such horrible happenings in the world as TFA. This place is supposed to foster curious, intellectual discussion, and the umpteenth report of what amounts to be the same horrible thing doesn't do that, at all. There is a disgusting glut of horribleness constantly happening in the world, and we don't need to discuss the particulars of most of it.
Something I think that has a chance to spark constructive discussion is when there are significant changes in such a thing, be that change positive or negative. And those discussions usually stay on the HN pages too, because while I'm sure many are flagging them, many are voting for them as well. As the HN guidelines put it: "Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic."
Because HackerNews is News for Hackers and not the latest update in a 4000 year old squabble.
I politely disagree with almost every combination of the words you just used :). 1. hackers could be interested in news other than tech, that’s the very identity of hacking: understanding things in this case, the world politics and conflicts. 2. even then, there are _always_ non-tech entries on HackerNews, de facto. 3. it’s not 4000 old issue (misleading oversimplification). In essence, it’s a century-old colonial project that is entirely inline with the 19th and 20th century European colonialism, with a supremacist idealogy at its core (ethnostate).
Maybe you really should start understanding things in this case instead of repeating propaganda bullshit?
The Arab-Israeli conflict started with the Arab invasion of the region roughly 1300 years ago. Before that, Arabs didn't exist in the Levante. And their colonisation and expansion originally targeted the entire (known) world, including Europe, until they were driven out. So, the Arab settlements in the modern-day Israel are just remainders of the Arab imperialism. And it's long overdue to remove this last piece of colonialism from the world.
Thanks for the lies, Mr Hasbara. You made a mistake though, the US would still exist as the last piece of colonialism. Now that you know that, I assume you will fully support the removal of all non indigenous people from North America.
> In essence, it’s a century-old colonial project that is entirely inline with the 19th and 20th century European colonialism, with a supremacist idealogy at its core (ethnostate).
I don't think that's a proper characterization. Migration way strongly regulated back then. Only after WWII when the crimes of the Nazis became public, mass migration to the southern Levante were allowed. It's therefore not a colonial project, but driven by what happened at that time (Holocaust). Arabic/Muslim and other citizen are well integrated into society as far as I am aware so I am not convinced supremacist/ethnostate is a fitting description either.
No it's not, it's never been about hackers except in name. It's about startups and venture capital. Always has been. Doesn't invalidate the point you are trying to make, though.
Theory: Most HNer's are quite aware of the crummy situation, do not like depressing "Day nnn of Horrible Things Happening in Sudan" updates, and know that discussing Israeli/Palestinian issues on HN has a 0.000% chance of improving anything.
From what I understand, US still supports Israel. Public opinion matters to politicians, so it's not 0.000% chance.
Drake Equation:
{total # of HN readers} * {% who are American voters} * {% who bother reading submissions/comments on this topic} * {% who meaningfully change their opinion on the subject as a result of such reading} * {% who change to strongly opposing US support for Israel (because politicians don't much care about druthers)} * {% who "stick" in that new position, long-term} * ...
Multiply it out. Then compare to the number of US voters who'd need to switch to strongly opposing support for Israel, for the politicians to notice or care.
I'll stick with my 0.000%.
Sure, then stick your head in the sand and keep supporting Israel. It's not going to change my view on US anyway, it only confirms it.
[dead]
[dead]
This has been happening for decades. This is working as expected.
Perhaps what's new is that a mainstream organisation is posting articles where their reporters have witnessed such attacks.
I've seen stuff on youtube, I've seen internet articles, I've seen thinly veiled references but this is a respectable organisation reporting what they have seen, on the front page.
I don't know how it is in the UK or other countries, but mainstream information sources in France have been reporting on this for decades, I think mostly everyone is aware. Granted, the opinion in France has always been quite sympathetic to the Palestinian cause (see Chirac with "do you want me to go back to my plane?" in the 90s) although the media and politics have apparently shifted towards more support of Israel in the last few years.
The ethnic cleansing that is happening in Palestine and what these settlers are doing essentially ensures there can never be peace. The settlers are to me the root cause of the ongoing conflict, it ensure the wound can never heal while land is constantly being stolen. Whatever ceasefire or truce does happen the settlers keep taking more land backed by the Israeli government. Absolutely disgusting.
The settlers aren't doing this without support, if the Israeli state didn't want it to be happening it wouldn't. There's tacit support from Israel for the settlements, they have political power.
I'm stating it this way to not push the responsibility only to the individual settlers, it's a concerted operation with broad support from a cohort of Israel's society.
Growing up in germany has lead me to have a somewhat blind-eye regarding this topic. But this is just pure evil.
I’m absolutely baffled by Germans at this point. I’ve been taking to many Germans in the beginning of the genocide and the major feedback I got was « given what we did to the Jews… we can’t criticize Israel ». Now almost two years after, countless of massive crimes and violated international laws later, I really can’t fathom how people are not outside shouting to their government to stop supporting this evil state (which has nothing to do with Judaism as many courageous Jews are currently pointing out). This is deep corruption at the state level and, likely, deep racism at the population level. Dehumanizing the Palestinians is the main explanation for the silent majority in Germany, and not without irony: yesterday they dehumanized the Jews, and instead of learning a general lesson, they keep dehumanizing other semites in the name of their past crimes.
If you run outside your apartment in Germany and shout to the German government you will be arrested and you will not be treated kindly. They come down very very harshly on critics of Israel. Entire institutions have been destroyed (as in removal of 100% of funding, bank account closed, raided by police, electricity disconnected (during the police raid), building forcibly sold to real estate developers, etc) for stuff as simple as hosting one single one-hour speech by a native Palestinian. You can look up what happened to the Oyoun cultural center, or the Berlin Palestine Conference in 2024.
The police justification? "There is a risk that a speaker will repeatedly be shown via video who in the past made antisemitic remarks and glorified violence. For this reason, the gathering was ended and banned on Saturday and Sunday as well." - nothing that actually happened, but rather for a suspicion that words might be said later, the entire conference was immediately terminated, banned, and violently evicted. There is not much video of the eviction since filming private gatherings is generally illegal in Germany. https://mondoweiss.net/2024/04/police-raid-berlin-conference...
No sane resident of Germany would risk it. You comply with the government or else, no different than Russia or China.
This is complete and utter bullshit. Basically every single word is a lie.
Every day, there are rallies in Germany by the so-called "pro-Palestinian" groups. Every single one is allowed by the local administration. They are even protected by the police. The only reason for intervention by the state force is an illegal action - e.g. violence against other people, insults, calls for the capital crimes, racism or the like.
There are very high legal thresholds for disbanding or forbidding of organisations in Germany, so the reasons need to be incredibly severe, like preparation or calls to violence against other people (primarily German citizens), instigation of racial hatred, propaganda against the German state or the democratic principles, etc.
Not a single person was ever detained in Germany for being a Palestinian.
Punishment for torrenting movies was basically enforced by the copyright holders, usually leading to fines in the dimension of 100-200 euros, something that even jobless people can afford.
And the public hotspots were absolutely not illegal, there was just a lot of uncertainty about the legal implications of the crimes that may be committed by the people using the free access points. This is why Germany had no free wifi for so long - it was not forbidden, it was just not regulated and providers were afraid of being sued.
Be careful. This comment ("pure evil") is illegal in Germany, under the antisemitism law. Many people got arrested for less. Police show up at apartments unannounced and take all electronic devices. You do not mess around with German law.
Saying that about a country is not illegal.
It's not being said about a country. It's being said about specific people - the settlers that the BBC witnessed attacking a Palestinian farm.
Neither is it illegal to state that a specific attack by settlers is pure evil nor is it impossible to critizise what goes on in Israel in Germany as you allude in your other comments.
It may be illegal, but it's 100% true
[flagged]
Given that all other problems in the world have now been resolved, it is fair for every news item relating to Palestine to reach the HN front page.
Just some casual kids dying of starvation, shelling. Millions of people displaced. Being shunted around. And a genocide live on social media. Funded by the country most represented on this site.
But yeah there are a lot of problems. I think this one is special as it shows we are going backwards, away from the lessons learned and comventions formed from the Napoleonic and World wars. We are going back to all's fair. And that might come for you or me one day.
[flagged]
HN (to me) has always mostly been about the other 5%.
[flagged]
It is no one’s right to decide if a people is made up or not.
As it stands, resistance to Israelis is enough to define them as a separate nation.
And what power will force neighboring countries to absorb these people, exactly? Pure wishful thinking.